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Home > Structures > Structural Beginnings

June 12, 2009

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Structural Beginnings

by Chris Brimley

There has always been modelers that are placed onto pedestals and usually they are more than deserving of that honer.  There are many aspects of this wonderful hobby that allow you to excel in.  For some it is track planning and operations, for others it is scenery.  Some are walking encyclopedias on railroads and their history and then some are great at structures and details.  You also have varying degrees of modelers, such as those that are happiest with running a Lionel train around in circles for hours on end, then you have the so called “rivet counters”.

What I am trying to get at is there is a very wide spectrum of modelers out there and the best of the best started somewhere.  There have been a few comments on some of my articles about why they would even try modeling after looking at my structures.  While I know and hope that they are just joking, I never want to up stage anybody’s work, ever.  While I have very strict expectations for my structures and like to out do myself on each structure, I compete only against myself and never want anybody to be discouraged by me, I hope for the exact opposite.

A few years ago I remember getting an issue of Model Railroader that featured George Selios’ Franklin and South Manchester.  This was the first time that I had been exposed to it and the article featured the newly completed city of Franklin.  I was blown away, the wooden city was amazing and the details were beyond everything that I had ever seen before.  In the back ground of some of the photos you could see some of Manchester and that is what really interested me.  After studying any photo I could find online of his layout for hours, I knew that this is the kind of modeling I wanted to do. . . an urban jungle.

At the time I was working on a small 2 1/2′ x 8′ N scale layout (sorry I never took a photo of it).  It was a simple double track main line that circled it with a tiny yard, at one end was a mountain and the other was a small town.  The town was elevated above the tracks and I was some how going to have a track climb 2 1/2″ in a space of about 18″ up to the town.  After the article I decided that I was going to make the town into a big city, just like George’s.  The problem was I had a great vision of what I wanted, but very little experience.  To put it mildly the city was a disaster and the track I laid was so bad that a train couldn’t make one trip around the layout without derailing.  I became so discouraged that I junked the layout and gave up because I wasn’t as good as George.

About five years later I started on a Ntrak module design, during my planning stages I again had this grand scheme for a massive city, this was the birth of the city of Hudson.  During the time I was designing it, I was taking many drafting and architecture classes.  In one of the classes I  designed an organically inspired home and our final was to build a model of it.  I went ahead and built it from styrene and it surprisingly wasn’t bad.  Because of it I had idea that if I could do a okay job on it, maybe I could some how build my own city?  This directly led to the design of the Steven’s Hotel, the El station and a few others that have yet to be built.  There was another building that I attempted to scratch build before the others but then gave up due to frustration, I started the Steven’s a year later.

So this story of my beginnings is to remind you that every one starts at point A and eventually will reach point B, in one way or another.  All of us are at different stages on this path and some of us are on different paths and guess what, thats great!  George Selios started with structures made of shoe boxes and I started with them made of wooden blocks.  So now I will show you some of the structures that I built from kits for my original grand city dreams that crashed and burned.  It was fun to pull some of these from storage cause I haven’t seen these in about five years and no one other than my family has ever seen these.

I will let you make your own judgement on these and I have included some comparison photos of structures past with present, enjoy and keep growing.

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About the Author

Chris Brimley — Co-founder of N scale Limited, Chris was bitten by the model railroading bug when he was 14, originally working with HO scale he soon discovered the limitless possibilities of N scale. It was only a few years ago when Chris decided that it was time to break free of the kit bubble and begin scratch building structures. The few structures Chris has built have gone on to acquire multiple Best of Show awards in NMRA and non-NMRA judged shows. He is also a member of the budding Junction City N-scalers modular club based out of Ogden, UT that will strive for the best of what N-scale modelers have to offer.
  • Bob
    I have toyed with the idea of creating a China town section to my city. Time will tell, I keep thinking I'm closer and closer to finishing with buying any more kits as I have a lot to build still...kinda scary! hahaha. Anyways a new model will hit me or an idea and away I go. I think if anyone ever makes a cool Chinese Gate I'll probably buy it and say...let's build a china town...I may still do this anyways. Victoria has Canada's smallest but oldest China town. It's pretty cool actually and has an amazing chinese gateway enterance. A beautiful and decorated gate!

    Anyways as far as scratch building goes I keep thinking about it. I have some cool ideas for more modern condo buildings. As there is nothing closely offered in N scale to the Modern Vancouver style Condo tower. If I want a modern city I'll have to learn to scratch build something like this! YIKES!!! hahahahaha. I have two in my house that a developer gave me but they are even larger than HO scale...but really really cool.

    I'll have to post them somewhere! I'm so grateful he gives them to me. They cost him over a 100,000 grande for his sale center! Anyways talk about off topic! yikes.

    Anyways having these larger models to look at will give me an idea as to how to make something similar but in N scale. I'll photograph these larger modesl soon.

    Cheers guys! also thanks Chris for you compliments.

    Keep up the good work everyone!
  • Frank Giacobbe
    Actually, Chris, the newer, small Kato kits (Bob just added one to his Flickr page) might work really well in a Chinatown section of a city. Even late 40s/early 50s cities like your doing would have had an Asian-inspired section, especially in the north East.

    I did some Google searches and found quite a surprising number of clearly Asian structures from that time period. Could be interesting to include something like that on a layout. I've never really seen that done before.
  • Im trying to!!!!
  • Greg Woolliscroft
    Chris....now get on with it.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Ok Bob, lets see if I can answer all of this.

    You do a great job with your structures, most people don't have the ability to take a kit and mentally take it apart and turn it into something 10x bigger and very original. I personally wont ever use the Japanese kits because they will clash with the era and locale of my city. But for yours they make total sense. Yours is modeled after what you know best, which is Victoria and Vancouver and both have buildings that are Asian influenced. Probably because Vancouver has a large Asian population (not sure about Victoria).

    Whoops! I just went off on a tangent.

    Anyway Bob, you do a very good job at what you do, and many including myself would love to see you scratch build something.

    I haven't seen much in the way of copying.....yet. What I have seen is allot of inspiration going on. Take for example Tim's new Plaza Hotel (coming soon on our site), it was a direct inspiration, not a copy. He took what I did and made it his own and I love to see that done.

    If you want to take some courses, you will probably need to start with some basic drafting and grow from there. It just depends on what is offered locally.

    We are working hard at keeping articles flowing, they keep us busy building and doing research. It is always great to know that our labors are enjoyed and have purpose to them.

    Thanks,
    Chris
  • Bob
    Chris,

    I must apologize that I have not spent the time reading all the articles on here as I'm so busy and on most extra little minutes of free time I have I'm usually building my own models, photographing, posting on Flickr...or I'm out on the lake fishing! hahahahaa.

    That said this is the first time I've read through this article.

    Thanks for the authentic, from the heart, testimonial. Your work is outstanding. A lot of people always compliment my work but I don't feel it's completely warranted, though it's always nice to have fans and appreciation. I say this as probably 95 percent of all my structures are kitbashed from various models, or multiples of the same model. Sure they look cool, painted well and aged etc. But they aren't scratched built as yours are or as Gregs are and some others. That being said I've really wanted to do some scratch built stuff eventually. I think starting out with that Walker kit maybe a good start.

    I was correct in my thinking that you must have had drafting or architectural training from your models, so when I read your post I wasn't surprised that you had taken these courses. In an effort to better ones skill would you recommend any courses in these fields? It'd be cool to gain some skill in improving my modeling. I do have to say mind you, from people like yourself, From Don, Greg, Tim, and others, my eye for details has improved a lot over even the last year. From being keen on street level details, to interiors such as blinds, etc, to roof top details etc. I look at my models from even a year ago and see that I really need to get back to them to upgrade them to a higher level. hahahaa. I won't even go into the models I built 5 or 10 years ago.

    Also on the note of the Franklin and South Manchester layout, I had never even heard of this until this year. And then last year the Rod Stewart HO city came out in magazines. I thought I was a loner in the world of N scale or even model train, super city building! hahaaha. I have been planning this layout for years and have always been so frustrated by the lack of models. I got some ideas and inspiration from a Japanese layout that I saw online, since then I google other's work, photos to see what others have done. It's amazing to see that this hobby of model railroad urban modeling is really quite large though unseen really. On the note of not copying people I agree. I see others work and say Dang! I wish I had that! Such as Jimmi's models on Nscale I absolutely love what that guy builds! But could never duplicate his efforts. Then there is Don's DPM Merchantile kitbash which I love. I have been planning a kitbash with this model for years and have never done it. So now I have the question...how to do this kitbahs with out copying Don! :D I'll have to figure something out as my idea was close to his...funny how similar minded folk think a like! I guess in someways there's also a risk in posting your work to the world on sites like this, or Nscale.net or in my case flickr. You hope that someone doesn't go and build the same exact thing you have done over and over again. One building here or there's no big deal to me. I've duplicated the odd small building in the past but 99 percent of all my buildings I hope are unique! So by blogging these to the world you hope they'll stay unique.

    Anyways I love this hobby, I love what you've done to inspire people, I'm always finding new ways to improve my own work while being independent and
    unique in what I build. I'm glad I'm not a loner and that I've found some awesome people who share my excitement in this hobby. I can't wait one day to put my city together with skytrains, roads, bridges, factories, industries, box car trains, steel production trains, docks, ships, etc. It's a ways away but one day it'll happen!

    Thanks for sharing your work with us and your inspirations. Keep it up and may we all keep growing in our modeling and achievements.

    Cheers, Bob
  • Tim Purcell
    I agree with you and Frank. And yes like you guys my modeling skills feeble as they may be are constantly improving as I try bigger, better and more interesting things. I am also as many of you know modeling a fictionsl city pretty much after NY and Chicago ( love them both) with buildings from both cities included. I however am doing a couple of my favs from each city "land mark" buildings if you will. The scaled down version of the Empire State building and a modified version of the GE building. I make little modifications because I don't want to necessarily do an exact replica but get the basic jist of the structure. You will most notibly see this when I finally get "The Monster" done. this thing will be awesome it is literally a city blcok in itself but it doesnt quite look eaxctly like the GE building. I'll let you pick out the differences. I am also trying to do like Chris said some more generic structures you could find in Milwaukee, Minneapolis/St. Paul, or any other major city. With summer finally here my modeling has slowed quite a bit but I am still swinging. Anywho thats my more than two cents worth..lol... lots of work to do busy busy busy....Tim
  • Okay, it is high time I put in my two cents.

    If you study the two "major" cities that George has built for his layout there is a major difference between the two. I am not talking about the obvious, Franklin is a wooden empire and Manchester is a stone and brick "plastic" kingdom. There is a huge difference in quality between the two, Franklin far superior. It makes perfect sense, he had to build over a hundred structures for Manchester and he became better as he went. Just like I have gotten better on each structure I do because I learn from mistakes and develop new techniques.

    Manchester has some "short cuts" that were taken that honestly drive me crazy, but I don't like pointing them out because to me it is a big deal but to others it doesn't matter. In Franklin he didn't do any of these short cuts, so that is a big reason why I say this.

    Another thing about the layout I don't care for is it isn't designed for operations, it is basically trains running around in a twisted circle. This didn't bother me until about a year ago when I started doing realistic operations on the UCWRR. Doing so adds SO much more to a layout and takes it to the next level. According to the current issue of MR (July 2009, pg. 88), he is in the process of doing just this.

    Like Frank and despite of the flaws, I will always love his work and use him & John Allen as reference and inspiration. I do agree that he sort of over does it when it comes to weathering, but until I see it in person I wont be to harsh on this matter. Mainly I say this for two reasons, photos don't give a good model justice (sometimes) and I use the EXACT same methods to weather as he does (which I didn't realize until a few months ago).

    One thing that is nice about the flaws that I didn't mention is that they did one great thing to boost me up, he is only human and even George Selios makes mistakes too. This is a big reason that I wrote this article in the first place, that the best have their flaws and started somewhere but what makes them great is that they learn and grow from these mistakes.

    Like Franks analogy of the Batman films, I prefer to model a more realistic fantasy world. My city of Hudson will be a fictional city that is based on many aspects of prototype cities that I like. This is a big reason I wont model "landmark" buildings. I choose structures that are generic but with character. So even though my city is hevily based on New York City, the structures I have done so far are based on prototypes in St. Louis, Vancouver, and Detroit. I think I have been rambling sense I started typing, but I am deeply honored that all of you feel that Frank and I stand among the ranks of the greats. But again like Frank, I don't think we are there. . . . . yet! HaHaHa
  • Frank Giacobbe
    Well, I do agree that sometimes the "over doing it" is required and don't get me wrong... I love George's work overall. It's just that I find it to walk a very, very fine line between realism and fantasy. Fantasy being somewhat like the dramatic Tim Burton version of Gotham city -- it sets a mood but isn't entirely based in realism. A better comparison might be some of the later original Batman films.

    Anyway, thanks for the comments about Chris and I. I won't speak for Chris, but I really don't consider us on the same level as George -- at lease not yet!
  • Tim Purcell
    Oh NO!!!! Frank stirring up the pot...lol... I agree with you Frank on some of what you say... George does tend to clutter things a bit however I have found as you have too I'm sure that sometimes you need to over dramatize things to make them look real when modeling. I think it's safe to say... now this is my humble opinion of course that George set the original "BAR" if you will for which most if not all urban layouts will be judged. Heck all layouts as far as I'm concerned..lol. I mean that he is a master craftsman like yourself and Chris with an uncanty ability to take some plastic or wood models and put it all together to make something unbelieveble. ( and yes that is a compliment to you and Chris as well and I hope it's taken that way) Safe to say that with guys like George, Frank and Chris around you all will keep the rest of us on our toes for a long time to come. Tim
  • Frank Giacobbe
    I'm sure this is going to spark a debate and is a little off topic here, but what the heck...

    I really like the work of George Selios and his FS&M; book also got me interested in modeling urban scenes. The fact that his work can do that for so many modelers in it self speaks to his ability.

    However, I find many of George's work to often be over weathered and sometimes cluttered. I know he models a Great Depression era, so things might be more weathered and less maintained than other eras. But there are buildings today in some very poorly maintained areas around here that are over 100 years old and don't look half as weathered and beaten down as some of George's structures.

    When I look at his layout now, I see more of a fantasy world than true urban realism. His layout seems to be more what you would imagine a Depression city to be, not what it would actually be.
  • Tim Purcell
    Hey Chris I want to echo some of the comments made by others on this sight. I too am a huge George Selios fan. I have the actual book he put out about the Franklin and Southern Manchester Railroad... it is, was and I think always will be my inspiration. I would luv to work a visit to his layout into a vacation of mine. I have always been a BIG CITY kind of person. I luv NYC and Chicago. I plan on modeling some of my favorite structures from both of those citeis on my new layout. As you know I have a wanna be Empire State Building and am still trying to finish "My" version of the GE building in NYC. I also plan on doing a couple of buildings from Chicago the old Post Office that was in the opening scenes of Batman The Dark Knight. There is also another building at 333 N. Michigan Ave thats going to be done.
    I too am a huge fan of your work. I like the way you put things as far as challenging yourself... I have taken a similar approach. I do things to see IF i can pull it off, I expect a lot of from myself, sometimes too much so I have to be careful I still tend to bite off more than I can chew...lol.anyway welcome to the new comers to the wonderful hobby of model railroading and just go for it.... keep up the fantastic work Chris and yes The Plaza Hotel is very near finishing. Summer time tends to limit my modeling a lot... tons of things to do outside. Thanks again Chris and Frank for a wonderful sight with some very serious content , Tim
  • Jim,
    I call them "clone structures" because they are sold by 3 or 4 different companies, and then they each have a few dozen variations of them. I have wanted to do some kind of kit-bash/scratch build with them, I have an idea, but I still need to solidify it.

    I envy that you are in the situation of actually building a layout, I can't wait for the day that I will be able to plant my structures somewhere other than a shelf. I read that you are starting another city on yours, I can't wait to see it.

    Also thank you for calling me one of your modeling "heros", I hardly believe that is a title that I am worthy of. I feel more like a con-artist at times, I could fill the Grand Canyon with what I don't know about this hobby. Every month I get humbled when I operate on the UCWRR, some of the best in the nation come here to run trains. It is amazing with how much some of these guys know.
  • Jim Boyer
    Chris, you really dug out some of my memories. I remember having the same experience. Reading the same article on the Franklin and South Manchester, being both impressed with George's talent and depressed by my own lack of it. In fact, it's only recently that I began any serious kit-bashing and scratch building. I guess the whole secret is to just sit down and do it. BTW, the first city on my present layout, Saint Barbara, consists of about 1/3 of the buildings being what you refer to as "clone structures". I had so many of them that it was a quick way to get tne city under way. I'm preparing the pedestal because now you are one of my modeling "heros".
  • Bengt,
    I am glad you like what I do and as long as thing go as they have I shouldn't have any reason not to keep going.
    Thanks,
  • Chris, I follow your work with great interest and I hope you will be able to continue your good work.
    You're a true inspiration to me. Thanks!
  • Tom,
    You are more than welcome, I am glad that you are enjoying the website that Frank and I put together. Knowing that someone made the effort to use one of our articles or projects, makes all the time we put into them worth it.
    When you get it done send us some photos, we would love to see your newsstand.
  • Tom
    Hello Chris,
    Just wanted to say what great web-site you have. I’m just starting out in this hobby and your site has been a great resource. I just finished constructing your newsstand (it’s a little lopsided) and will begin painting tomorrow. I’ve pick up some good pointers on this little project. Anyway thanks for the tips and happy building. Tom
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